Posts archive for: May, 2007
  • Sunday School

    I was just reflecting on Rose's comment about wild Christian Kids.

    We also Home School our three boys for various reasons. In the area we live the Home Schooling community is mainly made up of pretty devout Christian families who (I think)have removed their kids from the school 'system' because it is not teaching what they consider good values and is not bible based (this is not the reason we do). Most of these families would consider that the family is the primary provider for their children's education.
    BUT!
    When it comes to their Children's spiritual upbringing they are totally happy and committed to firring their kids off to get their primary spiritual input from Sunday School or youth group etc. In fact several run 'kids Christian programs' for the rest of the Home Schooling Community. It's like, we will educate our kids at home but in spiritual things we need to get a program. I would have thought It would have been around the other way.
    Any way its just a thought and an observation and could be completely wrong. I am biased as I hated Sunday School, Boys Brigade and Youth Group (except for the girls) with a passion as a youngster.
    sunday school

  • Wild Christian Kids

    I was just thinking that our kids have never ever really sat through a Church service or House Church gathering. I guess that is quite bizarre considering I was a Minister for 10 years and since then have been heavily involved in House Church and Simple Church stuff.

    The reason I think this happened, is that we planted a Church when the kids were quite young. Where the Church met was an awesome outdoor area, and all the Kids just naturally played outside until Sunday School. We didn't mean to but it was just the way our church culture evolved. Funnily enough most Churches in our area were strict about having Kids sit in Church until the Kids program was on. I guess all the rebels and Hippy's came along to our church and were happy for the Kids to run wild.

    Now that we are connected with three Simple Churches, it's interesting to note that all our theologies are different and how we express faith is different, but all three still let the kids run wild, with no concept of getting them to sit through the whole thing.

    Perhaps this is wrong, but it is interesting to see that all those Kids that we have been connected with over the last 12 years have turned out pretty darn good, and are passionate for Jesus. My own kids are still passionate about gathering with other believers and get annoyed when we don't, because they identify it with fun, and community.

    I guess in reality, I don't think gathering really has much to do with raising our Kids in God. It's the family that is the key. We need to ask are we committed to growing in God together as a family. Every Friday night we eat, drink and share the things of God together as a whole family. We pray together every day and try and show Christ 24 hours a day to one another (not that well at times!).

    So in the end as long as we are doing what we should be doing as a family the rest is just pretty optional and less important in my eyes.

  • Religionless Christianity

    bonhoefferfrom the prison letters of Dietrich Bonhoffer

    The thing that keeps coming back to me, is what is Christianity, and indeed what is Christ for us today? The time when men could be told everything by means of words, whether theological or simply pious, is over, and so is the time of inwardness and conscience, which is to say the time of religion as such. We are proceeding towards a time of no religion at all; men as they are now simply cannot be religious any more. Even those who honestly describe themselves as "religious" do not in the least act up to it, and so when they say "religious" they evidently mean something quite different.

    Our whole 1900 year old Christian preaching and theology has always been a patter-perhaps a true patter-of religion. But if one day it becomes apparent that this a priori "premise" simply does not exist, but was an historical and temporary form of human self expression; ie we reach the stage of being radically without religion-and I think more or less the case already, else how is it, for instance that this war (WWII), unlike any of those before it, is not calling for any "religious" reaction?-what does it mean for "Christianity"

    It means that the linchpin is removed from the whole structure of our Christianity to date, and the only people left for us to light on in the way of "religion" are a few "last survivals of the age of chivalry" or else one or two who are intellectually dishonest. Would they be the chosen few? Is it on this dubious group and none other that we are to pounce, in fervour, pique, or indignation, in order to sell them the goods we have to offer? Are we to fall upon one or two unhappy people in their weakest moment and force upon them a sort of religious coercion?

    If we do not want to do this, if we had finally put down the western pattern of Christianity as a mere preliminary stage to doing without religion altogether, what situation would result for us, for the church? How can Christ become the Lord of even of those with no religion?

    If religion is no more than the garment of Christianity-and even that garment had very different aspects at different period-then what is religionless Christianity?

    What is the significance of a Church in a religionless world?

    How do we speak of God without religion, ie without the temporally influenced presuppositions of metaphysic, inwardness, and so on?

    In what way are we the Ekklesia, those who are called forth, not conceiving of ourselves as specially favoured, but as wholly belonging to this world? Then Christ is no longer an object of worship, but something quite different, indeed and in truth the Lord of the world.

    The Pauline question whether circumcision is a condition of justification is today, I consider, the question whether religion is a condition of salvation. Freedom from circumcision is at the same time freedom from religion. I often ask myself why a Christian instinct frequently draws me more to the religionless than to the religious, by which I mean not with any intention of evangelizing them, but rather, I might almost say in brotherhood. While I often shrink with religious people from speaking of God by name-because that Name somehow seems to me here not to ring true, and I strike myself as rather dishonest (it is especially bad when others start talking in religious jargon; then I dry up completely and fell somehow oppressed and ill at ease)-with people who have no religion I am able to speak of God quite openly and as it were naturally.

    Religious people speak of God when human perception is (often just from laziness) at an end, or human resources fail; it is really always the Deus ex machina they call to their aid, either for the so called solving of insoluble problems or as support in human failures-always, that is to say, helping out human weakness or on the borders of human existence. Of necessity, that can only go on until men can, by their own strength push those borders a little further, so that God becomes superfluous as a Deus ex machina. I have come to be doubtful even about talking of "borders of human existence" It always seems to me that in talking thus we are only seeking to frantically to make room for God.

    I should like to speak of God not on the borders of life but at its centre, therefore not in death but in his life. On the borders it seems to me better to hold our peace and leave the problem unsolved. Belief in the Resurrection is not the solution of the problem. The church stands not where the human powers give out, on the borders, but in the centre of the village. That is the way it is in the Old Testament and in this sense we still read the New Testament far too little on the basis of the Old.

    April 30th, 1944
    thanks to www.edgenet.org.nz and http://www.geocities.com/capitolhill/1764/religionless.html

  • Ambiguous with Evangelism

    So where do I stand in regards to 'Evangelism'. Well to be honest I am a a tad confused, so my position is loaded with tons of ambiguity. I do believe that Jesus Christ is our hope, but I confess it is currently loaded with loads of sub clauses. But here is some of my museings.

    1. Is evangelism as we know it in the end all about communicating 'knowledge'? I think it should be about Christ shining through us.

    2. Is our concept of evangelism really a colonial attitude? Eg, We Know the right way and we are going to go to other people (and other cultures) and tell them about the right way because they don't know it. They cannot teach us anything because we have the truth and they don't. We love them so we want to tell them, but that love is a condescending love. This breeds arrogance, inflexibility and in the end intolerance. This 'evangelical' evangelism has the same spirit of the crusades which we feel such horror about today.

    3. Is the Bible really that cut and dried about the 'good news'? I think myself that Jesus is a pretty big key in the Good news, but I have always struggled to see all the i's dotted and the t's crossed beyond Jesus in the Bible. I used to sincerely ask this even when I was a Minister. I have read the Bible again and again through my life and I have always struggled to pin the Good News down exactly. The only way I could discover it was by reading other books about things like the Roman Road etc so I could understand. Yet I look at the life of Jesus, Paul or the early church living and acting not quite in the way I thought they would if they were holding to this 'Good News' which is meant to be so obvious.

    4. In the end experience tells me, that knowledge does not bring freedom in the long run. Yet the reality of being with God cannot be manufactured or sped up. The big guy in the end has things under control, and he will use us in his time.

    5. I have come to believe that Gods grace is so massive that any formula to do with Evangelism is totally changed. For people who hold rigidly to the 'In our Out' theory would throw a smidgen of God's grace into that formula. For me at this time, I guess I hold strongly to Gods grace with just a smidgen of the 'In or Out' in to that formula. Tomorrow I might think different, but I am happy at this time to live in ambiguity.

  • The Reality of Evangelism

    hell

  • Yes it's true I am a Heretic

    Well I was called an Apostate (Heretic) today to my face which is a first, but not surprising I guess.

    I accept it was my fault. I had a massive work day yesterday with some crap happening on the job, so this morning when we went to a gathering at some friends I was not in the best of mind frames.

    If you read this blog you will know that I really struggle with the "In or Out" theory. I love how Brian McLaren states the Evangelical view of it as a house. Upstairs Jesus is partying with a select group of 10 'born again' Christians while downstairs in the basement he is keeping alive on purpose 100 people for the sole purpose of terribly torturing them. This is the Evangelical theory at its most simple. I can't just go along with that.

    I also believe that people act out of what they believe. The massive majority of Evangelicals who declare this position must not really deep down believe it because they are not making any huge effort in 'saving' there friends and family in a desperate or aggressive fashion.

    So anyway, when a guy I had not met started assuming all of the above at the gathering I just had to open my mouth. I don't know why I just didn't keep my mouth shut. There was a fair few people there who I would say have a pretty middle of the road traditional Christian faith, or as Wolfgang Simson calls them -2's, and it was not appropriate for me to open my mouth.

    Anyway the guy quoted a stream of Bible verses back at me (as they usually do) and very nicely said I was in apostasy. So there you go.

    Funnily enough the actual gathering was really nice, and put on by a lovely family which we are enjoying getting to know, and the lunch was fabulous.

  • The Starfish and the Spider

    starfish-775708These are notes I took from the Podcast The God Journey on the book The Starfish and the Spider

    1. Stop reading after page 131 as it undermines the beginning.

    2. Its a business book which sees what our faith in Christ should look like when Church as we know it cannot.

    3. It's about the unstoppable power of leaderless organizations

    4. The church has an advantage that it has Jesus as its leader.

    5. It's basically emphasizing the power of decentralized community.

    6. It's what happens when no leaders are around or no heirachy. Systems and structures create bottle necks.

    7. A 'Revelational Reality' is what Jesus gave us when he said 'on this rock' not a a system, a structure or an institution.

    8. For a starfish to move , one of the arms of the starfish has to convince the other arms to move as well. No one yet understands how they do this, its a mystery.

    9. Large groups of people automatically self police themselves.

    10. To be a catyliser in this new way of doing things the basic requirement is that you have a genuine interest in others.

    11. Catylisers have loose connections, they exist for a time and the morph into other things.

    12. Some people see a bigger or larger strategy and they catylise and connect people together so synergy may happen.

    13. Connections are important and some people just seem to do a lot of connecting.

    14. These catylists want to release life.

    15. A catyliser starts where people are at and goes from there. They engender trust because there is no agenda.

    16. Catylisers tolerate ambiguity.

    17. Modern Structures including church cannot tolerate ambiguity.

    18. The tenets we use are human deductions of what God / Bible has left what in the end is ambiguous.

    19. Does that undermine the Bible, no way, but it is not a tool manual. There is a lot of ambiguity we need to live in as Christians.

    20. You have to ask are you worshiping a book or a person.

    21. We need to be comfortable with ambiguity.

    22. Why is the world coming to this but the church is not?

  • 9 Lessons Wikipedia can teach the Church

    jimmy_wales_150I got these thoughts from a recent lecture given by founder of Wikipedia, Jimmy Wales in Sydney Australia. You can listen to the podcast of it here .

    1. The most important key is love he said for community to happen.

    2. When around 25 to 30 people are active, it means community. They have talked, they have met, they have fought, they have made up, started talking deeper. Its community out of control!

    3. Voting is when you give up on consensus. They oppose voting because it creates polarization, the minority vote is still incredibly valid, talking just needs to continue to happen to there is unity.

    4. The dream is to democratize what we know and change what we know.

    5. Organization comes after and just happens. Jimmy Wales is already establishing a new enterprise which is exploding, but Jimmy admits he still has not decided what structure he will use for it, or how it will happen!

    6. The key is INTENTIONAL VULNERABILITY

    7. People love to talk about decentralization and the power of ordinary people but seldom do we do it, they on the other hand just do it.

    8. Assume good faith. When you assume the worst you need to create complex systems which makes a bad society.

    9. People are always asking Jimmy for the rules of Wikipedia and how those rules are formulated and even he cant remember what the are.

  • R.I.P Church

    tombstone
    A light hearted pic from One for the Road

  • Mocking Post Modernism

    I dislike the cartoon below, but have put it up to show the classic example of how much of the Church whether institutional or non institutional views Post Modernism. Basically it dumbs it down then mocks it.

    This same tactic is used by the political right when it disagrees with the left. I remember the Author Ben Elton (I read all his books!) pointing out that the biggest problem the left have is that that their solutions are complex and hard to explain compared to the rights, which are simple and easy to articulate. In an argument the right usually wins because of the simplicity of their arguments.

    However as Elton points out, just because an argument is complex does not make it wrong (in fact he believes they are usually correct). I would put Post Modernism in regards to Christianity in the same basket. It's hard to explain and articulate but that should not be a reason to dismiss it so mockingly.
    postmodern
    cartoon from http://paulmayers.blogs.com/my_weblog/images/postmodern.gif

  • Interesting Religious facts about the U.S.A

    I poached the guts of this from a pretty flash blog called The Seventh Sense

    1. 75% of adults believe the famed Benjamin Franklin saying “God helps those who help themselves” is one of the Ten Commandments.

    2. 10% believe Joan of Arc was the wife of Noah from the Book of Genesis.

    3. 50% of high school seniors believe Sodom and Gomorrah were married.

    4. Only one in three Americans can name the four Gospels, while less than half can even name one of them.

    5. A majority couldn't identify the preacher of the “Sermon on the Mount.”

    BUT THOUGH A TAD IGNORANT ABOUT RELIGION, AMERICANS STILL BELIEVE!

    98% of Americans profess belief in a monotheistic God, with 81% claiming to be “Christian.”

  • Are You A Post Modern Christian?

    Post Modernism is a bit of a swear word in Christian circles. Even within what is called the 'Emergent Church' most people quickly deride or deny they are post modern in the Christian faith. Reading peoples blogs it seems that everyone is accusing everyone else of being Post Modern (eg a heretic).

    Scarily enough I have just filled in a quiz that shows whether you are a Modern Christian, A Post Modern Christian, or thirdly whether you are actually on the right track!

    I appear to have failed the quiz as I landed in both the Post Modern Camp and being on the right track. So instead of going to heaven or hell, perhaps its purgatory for me!

    To fill in the quiz go here. I would be interested in peoples results

  • Jesus Attempted Killer Discovered

    King Herod's tomb appears to have been found after a search for 35 years. Herod was the friendly fellow who ordered all the Baby Boys under 2 killed, to just make sure that Baby Jesus was one of them. He was a very thorough kind of guy! Read the article here

  • Best Podcast

    god jourThe Further I travel on this journey of being Churchless while still living as part of Gods people the weirder I sometimes feel I am becoming. So it has been incrediably refreshing and recharging to hook into The God Journey podcasts. These guys are Older, Wiser and with tons of Life experiance on both sides of church (Institutional and Organic). Once I got past the strong American accents and quirky humour, I realised that their is a vein of Gold that flows through the weekly 45 minute podcasts. These guys have no agenda but an incrediable love for God and a freedom and a confidnace to express it.

    I really encourage people who are 'journeying' beyond organised church to give it a try. For people I am relating more closely, I would really urge you to listen firstly to Life and Leadership in Decentralized Communities which was put out on the 9th of March.

  • Church Splits

    The Average Church in the United States currently has a split every 6.7 years.

  • Sexual Abstinence failing Part 2

    About 3 weeks ago I blogged here about how Christian's are kidding themselves if they believe Sexual Abstinence before marriage is happening in a significant way in Christian Communities.

    Interestingly I was listening to a pod cast of the God Journey yesterday (which is the best pod cast around for Organic Christians in my opinion) and they were discussing basically the same issue.

    According to them, new statistics have been released from a 10 year study of teenagers who took the 'chastity ball pledge' in 1996. From memory 88% failed to fulfill the pledge, which is worse than the standard sexual rate monitored in the States.

    The Guys on the pod cast had an interesting conclusion as to why this had happened, pointing out that it was based on fear and using the scripture from Paul, that where the Law abounds, sin abounds even more. They had some great insights into perhaps better options followers in Christ should be taking instead of chastity rings, balls or pledges which have shown to be complete failures

    To get more detail check out CHILDREN, MORALITY AND LEARNING TO SAY YES

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