Churchless Christian

DID YOU KNOW THAT 50% OF MARRIAGES END IN DIVORCE?

THAT THE FIGURE FOR PASTORS IS EVEN HIGHER?

The most common thing we are asked by people checking out our website, blog and discussion group is 'Is there a House Church in our area which we can check out or attend'. This is not surprising for three reasons.

1. The first is that people who are thinking through faith and church issues are often no longer connected with other believers and feel very isolated, which can be crippling at times. Naturally there desire is to belong to a community of like minded people which can help them in there journey, and stop the isolation they are experiencing.

2. When thinking about something new, the natural impulse is to ‘check it out’.

3. In Institutional Church we are conditioned to think that we make a change by changing church. Those who have recently left a normal church carry this thinking with them. There paradigm dictates to them that they leave the Organised congregational church they belong to and join an organised House Church down the road. It does not take long for most people to discover this does happen very often.

I think there are a couple of practical and spiritual issues why this happens.

a) The majority of people I know who are meeting in ‘House Churches’ would say that the first one they ever attended is the one they started with friends or family. Both David Allis (of www.edgenet.org.nz) and I both say that the first House church we ever attended was the one’s we started in our homes. It is very hard for a visitor to ‘check out’ a House Church in the same way they can with an Institutional Church. When a House Church is usually under 10 adults, having a complete stranger come and watch them and make a judgement on the group obviously can create a lot of awkwardness and a loss of intimacy and openness. Usually the only way to join or visit a House Church is if you already have developed friendships with a member or members of the group.

HOUSE CHURCHES USUALLY GROW BY RELATIONSHIP CONNECTION UNLIKE INSTITUTIONAL CHURCHES WHICH GROW BY CHURCHED CHRISTIAN VISITORS

b) I believe there are many gatherings happening in every part of the country but because they are not connected with others, are relationship based, are underground (under the radar) and don’t advertise in the paper it is very hard to find them to connect with.

c) Even though our souls cry out for immediate relationship with others, I am not sure that is necessarily a God thing. When God took the Israelites out of Egypt he took them through the wilderness before they got to the Promised Land. Sometimes what we are trying to do is avoid the desert time altogether. The funny thing is that if you looked at the most significant time in Jewish History, it would be those years they spent in the Wilderness. Wolfgang Simson says that for every year you have attended church you should take a month to do nothing, and if you have been in ministry, double that.

SUGGESTIONS

If you want to experience organic church, the only real way is to do it. If you are connected with others of like mind, just take a risk and start gathering together over food, and pray for each other and see what happens from there. There are plenty of people and books which can help you if you want, just email me and I will send you contacts and books etc.

Remember we need to grasp that we do not go to church we are the Church, that is the biggest mindset that Christians need to break.

House Church starting to impact in Hollywood circles, read more here
http://www.prweb.com/releases/20061300/3/prweb359967.htm

It is a mistake to think that the early church was free to meet together as a larger group whenever they wanted.

The Romans saw the early church as a sect of Judaism (Acts 24) and therefore a religious group. This meant that they were not seen as a threat to the empire and were given the same priveleges as the Jews and were able to meet together weekly.

Other secular groups such as guilds were not treated so liberally. They were only allowed to meet together monthly. In this way the Romans could keep control of their subject people and keep a lid on any seditious movements.

Paul was obviously jealous about safeguarding this privelege. We see this in the Corinthian letters where he warns them about getting too carried away with their new found freedoms and drawing unnecessary attention to themselves. I have no doubt that Paul saw the need for meeting together on the seventh day as a pattern that God had set.

Meeting together on a weekly basis was important to the life and health of the NT church. And remember, living in a rural village society they probably saw one another just about on a daily basis any way. How much more important is it for us who do not have the same kind of daily relationships.

Dad

Is this one of the consequences of the prosperity doctrine going to far?
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/churchgoers-swindled-court-told/2006/09/25/1159036472242.html
In Papua New Guinea, one of the ways that the prosperity doctrine has shown itself is in churhc treasurers putting all the church monies into pyrimid schemes with the obvious consiquences. Years ago many protestants were opposed to gambling, including on shares and life insurance etc.

Weather people said that the ozone hole was passing over New Zealand during Sunday / Monday so that people needed to avoid the sun even though it was just the end of Winter. Naturally I ignored the advice. Yesterday I spent the day out in the sun with no hat, chopping 200 lambs tails off and got completly burned on my face and arms. I never used to burn even in summer, I would just go brown, and here I am being burned at the end of winter / early spring.
It's amazing how many Christians I know, believe global warming is a conspiricy theory or a myth. My red face says otherwise.
The family have headed up North for the holidays so i am here on my lonesome

We met together as a gathering today to talk about whether we carry on meeting every week.  It is generally agreed that after 2 and a half years getting together we have got stale and its time for change.

Kim and I are thinking that we would like to actually act out a more 'organised house church' in 2007, not because of any Biblical conviction but because we would be interested in seeing it outwork and feel it might fit best with where we are at as a family.  At the momment our lives are in turmoil resolving future decisions, jobs, money etc that we want to sort that out before we go that way.

It's times like these that I feel deeply ashamed of being a Christian, this is one of the top articles in the Sydney Morning Herald. I am now going to hide in the darkest room in shame http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2006/09/21/1158431843995.html

Hi ____________ . Some personal musings here. I wonder if you think your relationship with God is rubbish because you have been around to much super spirituality? What I mean is that when I hung around on fire Pentecostal Christians, attended there churches read the books etc; I felt the same way you did. I never felt Jesus was this real lover in my life (and still don't) I did not hear him whispering in my ear, I did not 'feel the presence of the Lord', or fall down slain in the spirit. But when it seemed everyone else did I naturally thought my relationship with Christ was a pretty big zero.

I remember being in Hamilton AOG, where every male was told to go down the front, and a woman breathed in the microphone and every single one of the 300 or so men and boys fell down in the spirit except me, I felt so terrible inside. They did it a second time and yes I faked it. But looking back I have to be honest in that at this time I do think that had little to do with spirituality and all to do with group dynamics, hype and psychosomatic behaviour.

When year after year you hear Christian's around you talk about what God has said to them, like they are just chatting on the phone, when you stand in church and people around you are just seem to be every week having out of body experiences you are going to get a very big complex about your relationship with God when it is not like that for you. Then because you want to change things you start reading the Christian self help books, and of course they are written by people who are having all these amazing out of body experiences, and god is chatting happily in there ear every day, so all it does is make you feel even more that you are not reaching the bar of faith.

Where I am at, at this moment, is that I find people who talk like that dubious, and I would trust your relationship with God as more authentic then some of the people you most probably hold up to being having it made with God.

I was privileged that when I first became a Minister I had a mentor called Ivor who was in his 80's (sadly passed away now). He had been a 'Spirit Filled Christian since before World War 2. He had sat in the back of today’s Pentecostal church (he was the head of that denomination many years before) horrified at what he was seeing and considered it bizarre and dangerous. This is a guy who was a Pentecostal before any one else I knew. He was a guy who sat in Mt Eden Prison for 6 years as a Conscientious objector because of his conviction about the Bible, yet he worried about the 'super spirituality' and 'easy faith' that was being displayed in the church and was coming out in books. He used to tell me that in the early days people would come and wrestle for years over things like speaking in tongues, prophecy, hearing God's voice etc. He said that what defined the early years of his ministry in the 1940's was that the people 'tarried' for that which they desired, today it is all instant.

tell this story because I think you are tarrying or wrestling with God, and I think my old mentor Ivor, would most probably be nodding in approval

Well that's my experience.
Sorry for the ramble.

Most twentysomething's put Christianity on the shelf following spiritually active teen years. Click link for article
http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdateNarrowPreview&BarnaUpdateID=245

Broadband went down on Sunday, and the technician still has'nt come 48hours later. I am beginning to panic over this neccesity for life being removed from my life.

Reading a great book by Karen Armstrong called Holy War, The Crusades and their Impact on Today's World It's the best thing I've read for ages, in fact since I read The Clash of Civilisations The book is very balanced and at the same time very scary when you compare the Crusader states a thousand years ago, to the state of Israel today and whats happening in world politics. The book is also good at describing the origins and changing of Islam, Judaisim and Christianity.

I spent the day chopping off baby lamb tails with a sharp knife yesterday. It was great to get out and get covered in mud and blood. I am always astounded by the difference of the Biblical discription of the Shepherd and his sheep, compared to the Kiwi version. I am going back up to more cutting (and castrating!) so will bring back more graphic pics to make you appreciate that Jesus is not a Kiwi Farmer and we are not Kiwi sheep!

When I listened to public prayers in evangelical churches, I heard people telling God what to do, combined with thinly veiled hints on how others should behave."

Philip Yancey, Prayer

I have just read again the life of Gutenberg, the inventor of printing (in the late 1400’s) with moveable type (as a printer this is a subject I have a great interest in.

These are some quotes….

“At Europe’s southern fringes the advance of the printing press stopped dead in its tracks, blocked by the world of Islam.”

Is it any wonder that Islamic communities as a whole have been able to remain so insulated and isolated from the rest of the world for so long.
(WRITTEN BY DAD!)

Does God want you to be rich, read this weeks cover article from Time magazine
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1533448,00.html Unlikely if you see what Jeus actually said and what he modeled to us.  But then dreams are free.

Here are some of my thoughts on Preaching

1. The sermon as we know it is more linked to the Greeks and philisophical debate then Jewish practice.

2. It is a great way to learn having to grasp a topic by preparing a sermon.

3. I worked out that I have preached about 400 times, of those I think there was about 20 which I can see lasting differences and change in people to this day, so it is a low hit rate.

4. At the same time I don't think any other method we have tinkered with has been markedly better (or worse mind you) then preaching. The reality is that people often don't change no matter what the communication style.

5. One of my best sermons which people still mention to me today, was a second hand message I had grabbed from someone else. Truth is truth even if it has not been given as Rhema. A good sermon with relevant truths transends alot of other issues.

6. The sermon is all about projecting power and authority and nothing beats the buzz of it, as all the people afterwards tell you how great it is. As a 22yr old it was intoxicating seeing people in there senior years scribbling down notes about what I was saying. Though what could a 22yr old really tell them?

7. Many young men see the above in church and crave to get into the same position. Which is why so many are keen to be Ministers even though the pay is rubbish and there is always a queue to get into the pulpit. Being able to preach makes up for all the negatives of ministry.

8. If you struggle slightly with insecurity, or crave acceptance, having a preach is a lovely bandaid.

9. Most people who preach truely believe deep down that they are an awesome communicater, because they are constantly told that.

10. Sermons are about entertaining people and feeding the congregations addiction to new information and rhema on a weekly basis. The congregation is at large a fault as the preacher in this.

11. Coming from a Welsh background, Wales is full of some of the great preachers on the planet and it has been true for nearly 200 years, that the Welsh produce the cream. My Grandfather told me that every Friday night in the Swansea town hall the building would be packed by people who had paid a door charge to hear two or three great preachers give a sermon each (this is the 1920'2 and 30's). It was common entertainment to have preaching compititions monthly in each church such as Moriah Chapel where the last Welsh revival happaned. The brutal fact though is with all these great sermons happaning in Welsh churches under 1% of the poppulation go to church any more. In Swansea which is the size of Christchurch the largest church has a congregation of under 300, and the second largest has about 70 people. It has become one of the most unreached people groups on the planet, but they love a sermon and a hymn.

12. I have not preached for 2.5 years, I do miss it, but I am not sure it is relevant, it's something I have put on the shelf for the time being.

SOME RANDOM TIPS ON CHURCH AND HOSPITALITY IN THE HOME.

1. The less you do, the more time you will have for others.

2. Quality can only come from Quantity. The more time we spend with people the more quality interaction is going to happen.

3. Avoid always meeting in the same house as a church. The longer you meet in one place the more organised and skilled the hospitality becomes. This is great on the day, but it can also reinforce to newcomers and members alike, that they cannot open there homes up, as they will never be as good as you. Keep it simple, and keep moving around.

4. On the same theme, do not choose or cancel a home because of size or location etc. If you want to be real and deeper with one another, go into each others’ homes regularly. In this way of doing church it is not location location location, but home home home! We gather in mansions and bed sits.

5. Remember people are watching and copying what you do, so make it reproducible. If you are going to have communion, use everyday things like wine glasses etc. which most people have instead of special communion cups which no one else has. This goes for worship, baptism etc.

6. Try to reflect Christ, not learned church behaviour.

7. We always aim to make the goal of having the very best food possible at the gathering. I know some groups who encourage their people to bring the very best of their pantry to the church’s table. Some encourage people to use some of their giving money to stop off on the way and buy some of ‘the best’, in this way everyone is blessed as they enjoy the first fruits.

8. Mind you, I know groups who have a simple cup of tea and a biscuit and powerful Koinonia still happens.

9. Since walking into the new wine skin, I avoid meeting people at the café if at all possible, but instead ask myself to their home or invite them to mine. I have had a lot more meaningful connection since this has happened.

10. Opening your home does cost time and effort, but all good things do.

11. It seems a very post modern and popular choice to talk about having organic type church in café’s, pubs etc. I am not convinced that they are the best choice for a venue. Why not go have it at home? Are people too scared of the normality and reality of it? I have been to a few of these ‘alternative churches’, and have several times been subjugated to the torture of institutional churches pretending to be cafes in their services (God help us!).

12. These days buying food in is as good an option as cooking for some folks.

13. When having people over, remember atmosphere. Welcome people at the door, offer drinks and nibbles straight away, and have background music on in the background (psychologists have shown that food and music are the quickest way to make people feel comfortable!) Introduce people to each other.

14. Going away as friends or as a church or larger group, is like putting a turbo on the progression of your relationships. This has been given to me as a tip by house churches in the North Island and South Island. They say having a weekend away is better than 6 months gathering together weekly.

Kim stressing on her Discussion group comment

Watched Chariots of Fire with my 11 yr old son tonight. Its the first time I had watched it since going to the movies 25 years ago to watch it as a 10 year old boy myself. Man what a powerful movie, what a powerful message, I still have goose bumps, it's what every boy desires, to be a moral champion coming from behind.

After the movie I dowloaded the famous film clip of Jack Lovelock winning the first gold medal for New Zealand ever at the Berlin Olympics in the Mile race in front of Adolf Hitler. Abrahams (of Chariots of Fire fame) commentated the race, cheering on Lovelock who went to University with him, with the words 'Go Jack Go Jack Go, He's done it! Watch it for your self and hear Abrahams commentate it here
http://tvnz.co.nz/view/video_popup_windows_skin/814661

We have been reflecting at the momment on the discussion group, about how far should we question and wrestle with our faith and when we should put lines in the sand where we say no more.

2.  On the other hand I consider myself to be a Christian Socialist, and my favorite author is George Orwell with his strong Socialist tendencys.  Quotes like 'mind control' and 'unthinking' and 'big brother' spring up when we are told that we should not examine things to closely.  I have always been told that Cults encourage there members not to question, but the reality is that the tendency is very ingrained amongst Christians themselves.  Surely our faith is strong enough and real enough for close examination?  For me if I don't look at important issues, I will always live with the thought, I wonder...  For me I want to look and see, I do not want to live in ignorance and doubt.

It struck me today, that I have never been so involved with my brain as I am now.  Looking back as a pentecostal I realise that I never really used my brain to think things through.  I am certainly catching up now!  I am more confused but at the same time more at peace then i ever was when I thought that I had all the answers.
Now that the discussion group is going nuts, starting the website off, dealing with the ezine, and this blog I have decided to take a day off the computer tomorrow, doing a miniture model of www.tallskinnykiwi.com who is taking a month off (Crikey!)

Well, when I thought Christians mighty be touchy about re-looking at our viewpoint of the church, I discovered that was nothing compared to re-looking at the Bible.
Funnily enough I had just said to Kim a week or so ago that I was thinking of wrapping up our discussion group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/everyhomeachurch/?yguid=268246046 Because I felt that I was giving all the opinions and not a lot of dialogue was happening.  THEN I posted an article that wondered about how we view the Bible, well 60 posts later I'm thinking along the lines of the Crocodile Hunter (CRIKEY).  The Bible is truly the centre of the protestant church, I think people are less bothered about Jesus Christ, the Church or the trinity then they are about the Bible. 

Protestants are in the end defined by there reliance on the Bible compared to the Orthodox and Catholic Churches, so I guess it's not surprising.  I am just starting to wrestle if I am really comfortable in the Protestant sheep fold.  The more I study the early church, and actually look at what the Bible says about it self (and its history as well) the less comfortable I am with my previous positions.  To be honest, to believe how the typical Christian (e.g. me a year or two ago) views the Bible would force me to leave my brain in bed each morning.  I think the Bible is important (I read it every day) but I feel there is a sense of idolatry to how we treat it these days.  People appear to think that without the Bible we cannot know God, but it seems sometimes that they know the Bible but not God?Yet the early church did not have the New Testament, and most (Gentiles) had no awareness of the Old Testament (they were not heading to the synagogue to hear it read each week).  Yet it didn’t seem to do them any harm.  And why does the four oldest churches in Christianity (Coptic, Ethiopian, Orthodox and Catholic) honour and use the Bible but not worship like we do.  I am no longer prepared to say that simply they are wrong and we are right, I really would like to know there point of view.The most interesting thing in this dialogue which is happening at the moment is how most of us are mature Christians who have been in church for many years, but we have never really discussed or thought through these issues.  Most of what we believe has not been tested and thought through.  I am only now working through what I believe after 17 years of being a follower of Christ, ten of them being a minister telling everyone else how they should think.

It is fantastic that we can wrestle with these things at last. 

Had one of the biggest sound systems at a House Church gathering today

We finally are on the road with a website, not completly finished though with audio and a few more articles etc to be sorted. Basically finished it ourselves in the end(Thanks Geoff!!!) and also Joomla (freeware) The site is

www.homechurch.org.nz