So what do I mean? Hmmm.....I guess I have got the impression that some on this list think that IC is a lost cause

I thought about this today. I thought I would be totally honest. I don't say this lightly as the only real skill I have is being a Professional Minister, and coming from 4 generations of professional Ministers and Missionarys. I believe we got it wrong! Church as we know it is not the way God intended it. And (I think) we can't just renovate it like most of my friends in ministry say they want to. That's like rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. So yes I do believe it is lost cause which is a real bummer because I have had my whole family, life and carrear invested into it. I thought I was on the Highway to heaven but discovered that it was just a cul -de-sac!

"Unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies it remains alone" For me 'normal church' is that kernel of wheat.

Also for me, I am that kernel of wheat, I need to completly die to everything that I have held to of the old (including normal church). Blood needs to flow, suffering is inevitable (hopefully as quickly as possible!) before God can birth something new.

God is not into transition (same thing as evolution) he is into death and life. I.C needs to die (I need to die, we need to die) that God may bring new life.

Stepped on more toes here I think?

I suppose I should back up everything Ive said with refrences and scriptures and stats but it is to late at night and I am too lazy, but I cannot tell a lie, I think that as committed Christian involved with normal church for 32 years of my 35 yr old life, that I was like a tame mouse running around and around its wheel going no where. I praise God that he has allowed me to get off that meaningless treadmill and find peace. Praise God!